I agree completely with what you’re saying. When it comes to many of the politically/religiously charged controversies such as abortion, we should avoid trying to persuade others with faith-based arguments.

To me, there are a couple of options that would be better. One is what I’ve laid out here by showing using science and medicine that abortion is no different than murder which is already an agreed-upon standard.

The other method, as you point out, is to lead people to Christ which will lead them to the same conclusions with regards to many of the moral situations that there is often so much debate and controversy over.

I’ve had conversations many times with others about my feeling that we cannot hold non-Christians accountable to the teachings of the Bible since they do not accept the Bible as authoritative. Instead, we should bring them to Christ, after which they likely WILL accept scripture as authoritative and effect those changes in world-view.

Thanks for the input!

we are not called to police the world. Government is a necessary but usually oppressive way of organizing people that none the less provides order in this world. But outside of the Jewish governments of the Old Testament, no command to enforce God’s commands by government is ever given. (And if you will recall, the Old Testament mostly documents how governments fail at this task, for the most part).

No teaching of Jesus commands us to make others follow his commandments. We are to make disciples, but the decision to be a disciple is one each person makes for themselves. No call to end crucifixion exists within the early church. When Jesus separates the sheep from the goats in Matt 25, none of the actions that made one a sheep or a goat involved policing the behavior of others.

We do not come to God by following rules enforced by men on this world, at least not according to Jesus. The revolution Jesus asks us to take up does not forbid bad behavior in others, but only bad behavior in ourselves. Our hearts can break over the choices others make, but it isn’t our job to make these choices for others.

“our common goal is not to ban abortion ”

That is actually NOT the common goal. My goal is to show that abortion is actually the murder of an innocent human life which is ALREADY illegal.

“a determined woman will * always* be able to induce a miscarriage”

Which would fall under the category of “murder.”

“these goals are not well-supported by the anti-choice faction”

What exactly do you mean by these goals not being well-supported?

The facts of the situation remain unaddressed in your comments. Particularly that the unborn are separate, distinct human beings and should therefore have the same human rights as any other human being. That includes the right to life specified in the founding principles of this country. That would mean that abortion is essentially the same thing as murder.

In fact, ironically, if anyone OTHER than the mother were to cause the death of an unborn child (excepting, of course, the doctor performing the abortion), that person would be charged with murder (or manslaughter, depending upon the circumstances).

So, it would seem that the unborn has a right to live unless the mother decides to revoke that right. I can’t help but wonder why the mother would have the power to revoke that basic human right to any other human being.

I find it almost amusing that people who want to allow women to have innocent human lives taken accuse people like me of being immoral. Very ironic.

The means to accomplish our common goal is not to ban abortion — an impossibility, because a determined woman will * always* be able to induce a miscarriage — but to reduce the perceived need.

We accomplish this thru sex education, access to birth control, and increased social support for child care. Ironically, and very foolishly, these goals are not well-supported by the anti-choice faction.

We have ample real life data upon which to base a decision. Look at other countries, see what does and does not work. What you propose *does not work*.

Here’s hoping you continue to fail at your cruel, uninformed, and ultimately futile goal.